HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-09-09 Budget Committee Minutes
Budget Committee Meeting
September 9, 1999
7:30 p.m.
Civic Center
Present: Cameron Hansen, Martin Levine, Richard Nichols, Jim Moore, David Fine,
Regina Stepahin, Carole Wheeldon, David Williams, Howard Braham, and Don Laws.
Absent were: Susan Reid and Cathy Shaw Staff present: Jill Turner, Mike Freeman, and
Ken Mickelson.
Hartzell called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
The agenda was reviewed and a decision was made on how to proceed with the meeting.
Budget Charge
Fine offered to respond to any questions about the Budget Charge that he and Steve
Hauck drafted. Hauck said that it states what is expected from a budget committee. Fine
said that he had looked at statute and charter to draft the charge. Wheeldon said that it
reflects what the council talked about.
Braham asked whether the committee was satisfied that the points meet the goals, and
whether the committee could really promote efficiency and economy. Levine noted that it
wasn’t clear what to do if it didn’t. Braham asked what part of the charge is mandated.
Fine said the last point is. Freeman said he thinks the first one is also.
Levine stated that the points imply that the budget committee will not see the budget until
it’s completed. Freeman asked for clarification. Levine said in the past, the committee
wasn’t allowed to be involved, and wondered it would continue this way. A discussion
developed about the various points of the charge and whether the committee should
accept them. Laws reminded all that the charge had been accepted by council and
couldn’t be changed by the budget committee. Fine said he had been advised that
Freeman was undertaking a means to measure performance.
Freeman then elaborated on the importance of gauging the successfulness of the city
operations. In the past, the measurements have been limited. Over summer, a consultant
came in to help set up a performance measurement system. He said the new system
would match up with budget and strategic plans. He stated that the committee would see
goals and performance standards and measures.
Levine asked how the budget would demonstrate the process. Freeman said it will look
and feel different. He added that the departments will be required to build line item
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budgets and that’s what we will print. He said it will make it easier to find the
explanations of line item expenses.
A lengthy discussion ensued about when the budget committee would get involved in the
budget process, whether it’s the committees place to determine if departments are
meeting their goals, how the strategic planning process fits in, and how the roles of the
city council differed from those of the budget committee.
Wheeldon said budget committee would look at what was promised versus what was
done. Laws said the council is responsible for setting priorities, but budget committee’s
job is to add citizen members for a broader perspective. In regards to measuring
efficiency, if a department needs more money, the committee must asked if the money
was used effectively. Nichols said it was worthwhile that Fine and Hauck attempted to do
this, but he is surprised with the points of the charge. He’s not sure it’s a logical charge
for budget committee. He thinks that the budget committee may be inundated with
minutia that is not the financial responsibility of the budget committee and less time will
be spent on the big things. Freeman responded by saying that the committee will see
statements by departments describing the programs, what will be accomplished, what the
goals are, and how they will be measured.
Nichols pointed out that the last point of the charge states that the budget will be
approved no later than May 1, 2000. He reminded the committee that this year they didn’t
receive the budget message, etc. until April 15, and then it wasn’t complete. There was
no capital improvement plan or fund balance summary schedules. He would rather
comment on those kind of things rather than on how a department is performing. Levine
doesn’t think performance is related to the amount of money that is being spent, and it
may be beyond the scope of this committee. Secondly, he continued, half of this body is
on the city council; consequently, if one citizen votes with the council, then the
committee just “rubber stamps” everything. Hartzell thinks the tools will be a relief and
asked the committee what they wanted and when. Fine said that last year the committee
spent more than half of the time listening to presentations detailing departments. He said
it was important to him because he was new. He suggested that each department create a
video and distribute it to the committee members so they wouldn’t have to listen to
presentations. Laws commented that it should be written rather than on tape, but he
agreed with principle. He said the main point is how money ties to performance and you
can’t evaluate efficiency or economy without knowing the quality of the program. Levine
added that this is his fifth year, and members of the committee are frustrated over the
amount of material with so little time. He feels could do a better job if it was clear about
exactly what they were supposed to do. He proposed to Freeman that before the process
begins with dept heads, the committee should meet and discuss in general terms the
parameters that the departments would use to draw up their budgets. He doesn’t think we
can come in on April 15 and determine whether the council did a good job.
Laws said he feels that budget committee should have a broad charge and appreciates the
citizen perspective. He went on to say that he didn’t like the idea of narrowing the budget
committee responsibilities, but this charge expands responsibility and can define its own
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role. Jim Moore agrees with Laws. He said the committee needs general guidelines for
the 2000-01 budget. He asked what things they would see and how much money the city
would have. Freeman said he could not deliver updated financials by December. Freeman
said the council could develop a number of priorities that would affect the budget.
Fine asked to have a full-blown capital improvement plan. Turner agreed. Hartzell said
that last year the first hearing came in February. This year the committee would like to
see the bigger stuff earlier. Fine said looking at the budget law, the council sets policy
and priorities. Fiscal policy is a shared responsibility of budget committee.
Proposed process
Hartzell stated that she heard there is a place for the budget committee to show up at
strategic planning process in January. Freeman said plan is to do assumptions in January.
Hartzell then asked if committee wants to meet in December, January, or February which
would include a discussion of the capital improvement plan. Freeman said it will change
and may not be ready in January. Nichols thinks the meeting should be held when it
would be of the most value. The budget committee members want to contribute some
value and not to usurp policy-making parameters of council. Stepahin said that Levine is
right about the frustrations year after year. We are broadening the perspective by having
an advisory capacity, not policy, but oversight. She went on to say that she agrees with
Hartzell. The committee has been getting clearer information. Also concurs with
Wheeldon and thinks the committee thinks we should get involved with the strategic
planning process. The committee should always be aware of what’s going on and the
committee should participate on a regular basis. Cameron said it seemed that the
committee should figure out how to implement the charge rather than nit pick it. Hartzell
thinks the charge has been a good thing to discuss.
Hartzell wants to know if committee would like to meet earlier. Wheeldon explained the
new process of involving the citizens of Ashland in the strategic planning process and
welcomes the budget committee to be involved with these meetings with the citizens.
Hartzell thinks if budget committee attends we can asked the citizens who attend what
they think about what is being discussed. Fine disagrees. He doesn’t feel that it’s the
budget committee’s place to take part in the strategic planning. Because of the type of
government we have, it’s not the business of the budget committee to share in policy.
Hartzell asked if budget committee would not be invited to participate except as members
of the public. Laws said here’s a lack of clarity in state law.. Not sure how the issue is
resolved. He said he thinks the budget committee should have ability to put on the breaks.
Braham said could we meet the charge. Laws disagreed.
Hartzell asked whether the entire budget committee meeting would be in January to
review the proposed budget process. Turner suggested that they meet by January 15.
Second Thursday night as a kick off meeting—which is close to strategic planning
session meeting.
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Hartzell then moved on to the subject of subcommittees and asked whether this was the
old process. Freeman said yes and reviewed the proposed process. Members can choose
to go to whichever subcommittee meetings they want. Hartzell asked for questions. Laws
asked about streets and whether it will be in the general fund. Freeman said yes and parks
will too.
Public input:
None
Budget Process continued
Nichols asked Freeman when the first meeting would be and if it would be a budget
overview? Freeman said the assumptions meeting will be first. Then, the second would
be the end of February. Then after spring break, they would start the subcommittee
meetings. Nichols asked if would have a preliminary budget document? Yes, per
Freeman. Freeman blamed himself for the delay last year. Hartzell wants it as early as
possible in March. Nichols asked for clarification about how we could control the
presentations. He would rather have the department head go through and comment on
where they are, as opposed to presenting to the budget committee. He would assume
everyone has read the material. Hartzell suggested to Freeman what he should direct the
department heads on what they should cover. Levine said that the committee had to
balance the department head desire to speak to us with the time the committee has. He
asked whether performance measures would be on how the budget compares to last year
or how they drew up budget. Freeman answered by giving an example of the street
department. He said there would be a program statement and performance measures
would be applied to budgeted numbers. They will have a target.
Wheeldon left at 9:28.
Hartzell asked if the proposal is one everyone is comfortable with. How does it relate
back to charge? Levine proposed that the committee go through this budget year to see if
they are able to meet the charge. All agreed. No motion.
OSF and the Chamber of Commerce
Turner said that she notified both organizations that this would be on the agenda tonight.
Levine said he thought that the organizations would have to come before the budget
committee to show how the money would be used. Freeman said that it was not stipulated
in resolution. Turner said the motion was to come back to the council, not the budget
committee. That was the recommendation at that time. Hartzell asked for clarification.
She said when the change was made, she thought would be some sort of accountability
for the money. This \[the information they provided\] is so general—there’s no sense of
how dollars fulfill the goals. Freeman says they meet the resolution, but out of the
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purview of budget committee. Hauck said it’s worth taking a look at and will bring it up
at the council meeting. Fine agrees with Hauck. He would like the supporting data on
how the money is allocated.
Wrap up
Hartzell asked if there was anything else? Laws made the suggestion to the staff that
every report and document related to the budget should be given to the budget committee
members. He said there’s a need to expand the information sent to the budget committee.
Approval of the minutes of the May 20, 1999, budget committee meeting. Fine motioned
to approve the minutes. Nichols seconded. No discussion. Ayes all. Motion passed.
Meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m.
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